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Camping

+11
ReAper
Shadow
atom!C
TheRustySpoon
Virtuosity
Po!son
Blaze
tool
Nicked
beatles
T@D
15 posters

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1Camping Empty Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:12 pm

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

I am posting this in the general section so that every clan knows this is being addressed and they have a post to referance incase it comes up again..

I have gotten a few complaints about pwp member camping in scrims. For those who sent me PM's, they were not forgotten or disreguarded. I needed ample proof it was not just a 1 or 2 scrim situation. Sorry for taking a while to address it. I jyst wanted to make sure, not that your PM's didn't matter.

Heres how camping is seen to me. I may be corrected, but this is my "official" opinion.

If you are in the same room for more then 1 point made by either team (with the intent to stay in that room) that is camping.

If the entire team is deal, and you are avoiding the enemy via hiding, that is camping.

If the antibot warning even appears on your screen, that is camping.

I personally like to crouch quite a bit, watch corners, and im getting better with anticipation of location. I assume that comes with experiance. Being able to predict where people are comming from and prepairing is not camping.....but excessive sitting is. Keep that in mind when you are waiting.

I know a few clans we respect are upset by, what they consider" excessive camping in pwp scrims. Right or not, we do not want to lose the close relationships with the clans we worked hard to know in the community.

We are goning to start with a clean slate.....but. From now on, when we get complaints about members camping, we will require them to demo every game they scrim and make farther decisions dependant on those demos. I dont wanna get to that point, so lets get back to a relaxed, non-complaint scrimming clan.

I ask that there are only 2 types of responses to this thread......agreeing or not posting. If you have a complaint, bring it to me or smoke. This thread wont turn into a flame war.

I appriciate you all taking the time to read this and hopefully understanding. If other clans are camping, we can elect not to scrim them which we dont want to do.....just like if we camp, other clans wont scrim us.

Lets keep it fun.


-T@D-

http://www.pwpclan.org

2Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:17 pm

beatles

beatles
Quake III Member
Quake III Member

As you said. I like to crouch around corners, and watch the bodies i shoot. But i agree with the people who are not liking campers.

http://www.pwpclan.org

3Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:31 pm

Nicked

avatar
Im here fairly often!

can we know who complained about camp.. and they complained on who?

because im used to get accuse of camping or hacking every games.. so it's not like i take it personnal anymore. lol

but i doubt im camping im trying to play my game style correctly and if anyone notice i only camp when im alone at end of points, i usually am the one railjumping in a room and simply jump in! Very Happy

but thanks for posting tad

http://azoclan.forumotion.com

4Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:36 pm

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

Your name hasent came up really nick....but no, you cant know who complained or about who. If those parties want to post something, they can....but out of respect.....I wont post who said what or when.

http://www.pwpclan.org

5Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:04 pm

Nicked

avatar
Im here fairly often!

okidoo!

http://azoclan.forumotion.com

6Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:20 pm

tool

tool
Retired
Retired

camping is part of the game. Like if in teamchat my teammates say the guy is going from red armor to back hallway to rocket launcher room and I'm in yellow base, well of course I'm going to wait for him. If he walks into my rail it's his fault for either not hearing my rail, not being prepared, or his teammates not telling him I was there. I'm merely winning the game for my team by camping for 3-4 seconds. I agree that continuous camping from the same person can get annoying, but not if it's in strategy.

I mean, I spawn sometimes and hear an enemy coming and kill them within 3 seconds and they call me a camper. So some of these incidents could be misunderstandings.

http://www.myspace.com/kaylaandme

7Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:24 pm

Blaze

Blaze
Quake III Member
Quake III Member

I actually am with tool, camping is part of the game, but ofcourse there's always consecuences, I know some players that wont scrim pWp cause of that same reason, I agree with tad lets keep it fun.

btw I dont camp -_- just in case Smile

http://www.spankwire.com

8Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:25 pm

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

I agree tool. If Im the last one left, and someone says "mid" and im in quad......Im goinna zoom and aim. Thats stratgy, but after that point is ofer....I move on. These complaints are more about sitting in 1 room for mulitpule points, or hiding to get their team autospawned. Neither are accetable.

http://www.pwpclan.org

9Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:57 pm

Po!son

Po!son
Retired
Retired

I agree with what you said T@D. Every clan camps a little in scrims, that's just basic fact. I think when the body camping, staying in yellow bounce too long, or even rocket, is what people have the most problems with. If you have frozen bodies, by all means, you want to camp them. But camping them means checking your surroundings, and then coming back to them in hopes you get another frag before they melt. I like to have fun and play for fun, but I have noticed camping myself, and at times it's annoying. I don't like the whole "Well if they camp, then camp them back." That pretty much just starts a bunch of BS at the end of the scrim that's unneccesary. My few cents. Let's all have fun Smile

10Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:44 pm

Virtuosity

Virtuosity
Leader
Leader

Look I respect your post tad but seriously some people need to stop complaining.. We have anti-camper for a reason. Also lets go to dictionary.com for the definition of camping: To establish or pitch a camp

So there for we are not bringing tents or camp fires so it is not camping Very Happy

11Camping Empty Re: Camping Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:08 pm

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

If anyone has a situation involving pwp that has the chance to lower our respect value...they they have every right to complain.....and we will look into it. This post was such a situation.

http://www.pwpclan.org

12Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:39 am

TheRustySpoon

TheRustySpoon
Quake III Member
Quake III Member

I agree that staying in rooms (camping) is annoying, and i enjoy finding opponents rather than letting them find me.

But i also agree with tool, and i have thought about the issue of camping long before and heres my thoughts on camping...

I think the line between camping or not camping is a little less definitive. For example in all weapons, you can tell if someones always hanging aroound the armor spawns, then again, that is also a viable strategy (map control). Also when someone camps and ambush you, you almost have a fighting chance and at least "damage" the other person. But in railfreeze, you die so fast most of the time and sometimes its like a "wtf where did that come from" shot. If im walking and someone happens to railjump without paying attention to their surrounds, of course i will stop and take my time and snipe him off. I think most ppl (including me) would think "damn camper" if they were the railjumper in that situation.

Sometimes you know where your opponets are, either through sound or team chat. In this situation, the other team probably heard you to. I dont think you are camping if your letting them make the first move. For example, when i encounter mutiple enemies in quad, i almost retreat and try to hold them in YB hall, of course they noticed me too. If they decide to swarm me while my crosshair is on the door, its their decision.

Although none pointed out spawn camping, i just wanna add that it should not be frowned upon at all. I mean, if someones spawning, and i dont kill them, i end up dead. I rather spawn them and deal with them in a proper faceoff situation (he knows im coming and i know hes coming all through sound).

Another common situation is probably what perceives to be a team camp. If its a decent size scrim, most of the time, SOMEONE is around the bodies. Though probably not the same person... But yeah, but what should the whole team do? just purposefully avoid the frozen ones? Another "team camp" situation is when the other team keeps on trying to melt, yeah the whole team will swarm them. Then right after, someone else from their team try and melt again before we left, yeh we're gonna regroup and swarm them again.

I sometimes do have a problem with people that appear to have their crosshair on a corner, and shots me the second i go. But then again, whats to say that he isn't in one of the above situation? I used to get mad, but now i rarely do because yeh i been in those situations before. Meh at any rate, camping is a serious problem. But its not a team problem. Just because you walk around a corner does not mean they are camping. Serious camping should be demoed and dealt with, of course!

Sorry if i come out as harsh or disagreeing, and for writing so much. but i gave camping a lot of thoughts before and i just wanted to write down what is camping and what isn't.

Im sure what the upset parties know all those already and i apologize for sounding... (if i come out sounding to "assholey", im sry Sad and remove this!). But those are just my views on camping, and I think actual camping should be demoed and dealt with definately! Razz

Camping 511442

13Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:48 am

beatles

beatles
Quake III Member
Quake III Member

To be honest. I read this whole post by Spoon. And i have to agree. With Tools statement on strategy is a perfect word. If you hear someone, your not going to pretend he's not there, and go to the next room. Your going to wait for him to come around the corner, and you're going to shoot him.

(Spoon, your not sounding like an asshole) Camping 303747

Poison, yes indeed. Let's all have some FUN. It's a game. Smile Well I'm done nabbing.

Gl + Hf.

http://www.pwpclan.org

14Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:57 am

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

Spooner....perfect post.

SOmetimes the apearance of camping is not actually camping, I totally agree.

There are here though, a few proven cases of pwp members camping more-so then just the occasional corner shot.

But I have to say, perfect post.

http://www.pwpclan.org

15Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:48 am

atom!C

avatar
I Just got here!

I was one of those people who let tad kno of my concerns about pwp camping. I did not "cry" or "complain" to tad, i simply stated the situations (which i will state in this post), and that because of these situations and their own personal situations they've been in with pwp, i have several members who do not want to scrim pwp at all anymore. This is the number one reason i brought this to tad because 2k7-2k8-2k9 and pwp goes way back (both clans pratically began together back when it was me and jinx vs tad and frog), so i have great respect for the pwp clan, tad and frog, and anyone who they feel is a good enough person to wear the pwp tags so i hate for something like this to ruin anything between our clans, we have had many great scrims and i only want them to continue.

Now i have had several complaints of the camping from other members of my clan, but i myself was only there for 2 of the games so those are the only 2 i will elaborate on. In both games there was excessive camping the entire game (in my opinion), and this was not "strategic camping", ive been playing this game for around 10 years so yes, i know the strategy involved (and yes i suck for playing that long, but its not cuz of not knowing the strategy its jus my shitty aim Razz).

In the first game, vicious literally crouched on the high ledge in rocket aiming at back hallway for an entire point (this was a 3 or 4 man scrim so he shot 3-4 people from the same spot who came through with quite a bit of time in between them, a good 10-15 seconds), only moving to avoid the anti camper death (moving side to side but ultimately staying on the same ledge). when confronted afterwards about camping he said, "I camped when u all had my team mates fragged".

In the second game a couple weeks later, the moment that was most disapointing was in mega, i came through upper hall and was shot by rax, who was up on the high ledge in mega crouched (how long he was up there before that i dont know). after shooting me he stayed in place for a few seconds (plenty of time to jump down from the ledge) and then took 3 more shots at red hall at my teammates coming from that direction before being killed by the anti camper.


This post is not meant to start a flame war with anyone, mentioned or not. It is meant to show that there were legitimate reasons behind bringing this to tad's attention and that they have nothing to do with "strategy". I guarantee there is not a single person who would not be angry if they were repeatedly camped in not one, but two straight games (weeks between the games) against the same clan. A clan in which you have enjoyed many, many fair and fun games against and i hope we can have many more after this all.

final thought-> Being camped the entire scrim where it is expected to be little to no camping by either team takes all the fun out of the game much like playing against someone who is hacking, imo. instead of being pissed off and exchanging meaning less insults over the internet, I and my clan would rather just label pwp as campers and not scrim against them at all, which i would hate to label a whole clan as campers simply because of the actions of a few. some may think this is excessive, but every member of a clan reflects the clan as a whole, which is why some consider their clan as "family". if one member is allowed to continuelously play unfairly, it soils the name of the "family" that they play for.


if you read this entire post, thank you and get a life Razz Camping 471770



Last edited by atom!C on Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:06 am; edited 1 time in total

16Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:04 am

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

Ty for posting atom....but you wernt the only one who brought this up....so its not in isolated incident. Please dont think that this post was made due to these 2 situations atomic posted...it goes farther then that.

I did talk to vic about the 1st situation I believe, and I assume this is fixed. Rax being able to read this post, I assume it will be fixed as well.

Point of all of this is.....Hackers are hated....why? Becasue they take the fun out of the game for other players. Camping is hated for the same reason.

In my 1st point I stated my feelings about camping, and they will be inforced....

Long story short, dont stay in the same room for more then 1 point, dont hide for a team automelt. Keep the game fun for everyone.

http://www.pwpclan.org

17Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:08 am

atom!C

avatar
I Just got here!

edited my post while u posted tad, so if some things contradict from post to post, its cuz of that Razz

18Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:10 am

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

Im confused as well



Is 2k declining pwp scrims now?

http://www.pwpclan.org

19Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:12 am

Blaze

Blaze
Quake III Member
Quake III Member

Ok this is gonna take forever to read ( I havent read it), lets just stay at playing for fun, and from what I've read its nice of atom!C to come out in the open and post his reasons, whichever they are cause I havent read em when I do i'll reply something I just feel like spamming a lil, so yea like Tad said atom!C the topic wasnt brought for u only, and like I said before on one of my posts I knew some players that Dont play pWp at all, cause of our camping thing.

And Rusty ur topic is so fucking long dat I just read the first 2 lines, then read Tad's post and what Tad's said dat u said dat im going to say, Is dat I agree dat sometimes camping aint camping at all.

http://www.spankwire.com

20Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:13 am

atom!C

avatar
I Just got here!

not necessarily, i still have a few members who have chosen not to scrim against pwp until they see for themselves that things have improved. it is a person to person decision at this point.

21Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:17 am

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

No offence atom...but that is fairly dissapointing. You rightfully brought this to my attention, today...and today I started the groundwork on fixing it. It seems a bit unfair to start with a drastic measure for a situation that was just brought forward.

By all means, handle 2k the way you feel is right and what is right for your members...it just seems your "edit" should have been something posted later, if no results were shown....considering my 1st post about this was a few hours ago.

http://www.pwpclan.org

22Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:40 am

atom!C

avatar
I Just got here!

T@D wrote:No offence atom...but that is fairly dissapointing. You rightfully brought this to my attention, today...and today I started the groundwork on fixing it. It seems a bit unfair to start with a drastic measure for a situation that was just brought forward.

By all means, handle 2k the way you feel is right and what is right for your members...it just seems your "edit" should have been something posted later, if no results were shown....considering my 1st post about this was a few hours ago.

today was the second time i mentioned it to you, the first time was very brief as i thought it was just an isolated incident.

perhaps i worded it poorly, declining all pwp scrim requests would only come about if the problem persists. like i said, i respect any 2k9 members decision not to scrim against pwp at this point, so its a person to person to decision until this is cleared up.

23Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:53 am

T@D

T@D
*pWp*Founder*
*pWp*Founder*

Well, again as I said, this is the 1st time I publically addressed the situation brought to me by you, and another clan.

If either clan declines scrimming pwp due to not being able to fix this problem in the few hours this topic has been posted....then I understand


I wish you the best of luck.

I will not be declining scrims personally. So someone hit me up for one Smile

http://www.pwpclan.org

24Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:51 am

Nicked

avatar
Im here fairly often!

I will not be declining scrims personally. So someone hit me up for one

Camping 55015

http://azoclan.forumotion.com

25Camping Empty Re: Camping Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:19 pm

Shadow

avatar
Retired
Retired

Camping to me is like has been defined already, you stay in 1-2 rooms for a whole point. That is not acceptable even if you have them all frozen! I can't tell you how many times my teammates all get frozen in rocket launcher, I try to come from bh only to see all 3-4 enemies bearing down on me, so i retreat and come from a different angle, only to see the same thing happening!

THIS GAME IS 10 YEARS OLD people!! Play for fun ffs, I've never taken ANY joy in camping or "winning". It feels good to get kills yes, but I feel much more satisfied after I have a 5-6 shot battle across quad compared to me getting a cornershot at the end of the game.

As a rule for myself, when i see the anti-camper words on my screen, I move rooms and unless i am the last one alive, I dont return back to the room i was "camping" in. I think it would be beneficial to everyone if they adopted this strategy.

my 2 cents...

ps blaze naab read before you post >.>

pps spoon that was a perfect post omg o.o

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