The new *pWp*

First topic message reminder :

Hello all current *pWp* members. Please read this post in its entirety due to the importance of the content. I don't expect everyone to agree with this post, all I ask is for you to read it with an open mind. Feel free to post replies after reading.

On March 21 2007, Jake and I had an idea. We wanted to make a clan so he and I could scrim other clans 2v2. This clan was built as a family, him and I being real life family. We did not make the clan wanting to be the best, we made the clan so him and I, as family, could have fun together and enjoy playing a video game. We decided not to make a forum or have a server at the beginning because we wanted to just have fun in the game together. Consider it a dream of ours if you will. We didn't expect to be the best, the largest, the most known...all we wanted was to have fun. We had a few people ask to join, we politely declined. Why? Because we wanted the clan to stay family. The idea was thought through after a few months of adding people. We added 1 person, mainly so we could 3v3 instead of only being able to 2v2. The skill of the person we added was good...but we didn’t have the family feeling that we started with. He eventually went inactive, and it was just us two again.

After some more time went by, we decided it was time to go public with the clan. Time to make a forum, time to have a server. I spent a fairly large amount of money having a server built that I could host from home. I upped my internet speed, got a static IP, and spent quite a while with frog learning how servers worked. We worked very hard on everything, changed a lot of things back and forth with the forums and servers....but never lost sight of 1 thing, we were a family. A place for fun. A get-a-way for those players that either were new or didn't fit in to the competitive side of the community. Once we had servers, and a forum...the clan started growing fast. We, however, keep a hold of the reigns tight to make sure our "dream" of what pwp stood for was kept. Family.

At the beginning after going public with the clan, we pretty much lost every scrim to every clan. That was ok, we weren’t bothered with winning or losing....we wanted to have fun. We were succeeding in our efforts. I would come home from work, after leaving my xfire on, and see 20 messages a day from friends in quake and pwp members....just saying hi. There was no "clicks", we were all for 1, and 1 for all. We maybe only had 8-10 members, but we all knew each other. We had great times together. No drama, no competition....just fun. Again, following our dream. More people came, more wanted to join...the clan continued to grow...as a family.

There have been a lot of changes since then. A lot has happened. A lot personally, and a lot in game. In the past 6 months or so, a lot of things have happened that put the "dream" in the background. A few situations that happened in the past 3 weeks confirmed that to me, hence my withdraw. I didn't ever leave "*pWp*"...the clan Jake and I created.....I withdrew from the new *pWp*...what it had become.

I’m going to share a few messages I got from people once I left:

[20:21] ReApz: woulda been less work to just kick everyone u didn’t feel honored your beliefs in pwp :p
[20:21] ReApz: but that's just me, shortcut lover
[20:21] ReApz: lol
[20:21] {F&F}.T@D.: lol
[20:21] {F&F}.T@D.: I was gonna do that
[20:21] {F&F}.T@D.: but
[20:21] ReApz: i know u were
[20:21] ReApz: lol
[20:22] ReApz: pWp was ur baby
[20:22] ReApz: my only point
[20:22] {F&F}.T@D.: still is
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23:23] *pWp*T@D*: i think im gonna leave
[23:23] *pWp*T@D*: I wanna give the clan to you
[23:24] *pWp*Big*Buck: no ur not!
[23:24] *pWp*T@D*: ya
[23:24] *pWp*Big*Buck: no
[23:24] *pWp*Big*Buck: man
[23:24] *pWp*Big*Buck: u just gonna take a break?
[23:24] *pWp*T@D*: I accomplished all I could
[23:24] *pWp*T@D*: its time to start new
[23:24] *pWp*Big*Buck: new?
[23:25] *pWp*T@D*: Im gonna make a new clan...go back to what I wanted pwp to be
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: meh
[23:25] *pWp*T@D*: its way out of wack, and wont fix uless we kick ppl
[23:25] *pWp*T@D*: i dont wanna do tjat
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: kick people!
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: yes you do
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: ill back you up
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: 100%
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: so will acid
[23:25] *pWp*T@D*: i know u would
[23:25] *pWp*Big*Buck: man
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: ahh
[23:26] *pWp*T@D*: 'i wanna start new
[23:26] *pWp*T@D*: pwp has a VERY solid core
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: yes
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: it does
[23:26] *pWp*T@D*: it will continue
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: but you need to be apart of it
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: like you said
[23:26] *pWp*T@D*: i cant
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: this is ur clan
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: you have a tatto of it
[23:26] *pWp*T@D*: its not what i wanted
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: man
[23:26] *pWp*Big*Buck: make it what you wanted
[23:27] *pWp*Big*Buck: kick people
[23:27] *pWp*Big*Buck: do w/e
[23:27] *pWp*Big*Buck: it takes
[23:27] *pWp*T@D*: i cant, its past that point
[23:27] *pWp*T@D*: i want it to continue to grow
[23:27] *pWp*T@D*: not slow it down
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*pWp?*Sync*: Within this week
*pWp?*Sync*: You will regain control of pWp
*pWp?*Sync*: You will discuss your concerns on said members that your wish to eject
*pWp?*Sync*: via topic
*pWp?*Sync*: You and *frog will have control of the boards
*pWp?*Sync*: you and *frog will have control of the servers, dedicating rcon and ref to a few only
*pWp?*Sync*: No leader Bs
*pWp?*Sync*: No Cl bs
*pWp?*Sync*: honorary member is cool
*pWp?*Sync*: People get a little power hungry and do things just to move up rank
*pWp?*Sync*: Rank doesn’t matter in pWp Its FUN
*pWp?*Sync*: so, why rank anyway?
*pWp?*Sync*: You know who you can count on
*pWp?*Sync*: Despite their rank, so if you need some help, asking will be none the different

* = Edited
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are many more conversations but I don’t need to post them all. The basics I got from people was "pwp is your clan, you and frog made it....if it's changed to what you don’t want, fix it" Well, that’s what’s going to happen. Again, I don’t expect everyone to agree or be happy with the changes; all I ask is that you understand that frog and I put a lot of effort into this, a lot of time, a lot of learning.....before we even had 1 other member. After adding members, there are a lot of people who put the same time and effort in to continue the dream. It's time to get the dream back on the right road.

Here is a list of my personal concerns of how things were, to how they are now. I'll try and point out the differences the best I can.

Then: We all knew a lot about each other. We joked, played the game, scrimmed.
Now: The clan is divided into clicks. I would guess that I have talked no more then 1-3 times with 30% of the members outside of a server.

Then: We said GG after every scrim, win or lose.
Now: It's rarer to see that then see a complaint about either teamwork, camping, hacking...etc.

Then: No one said anything degrading to each other during a scrim.
Now: I have seen team chat and even been yelled at personally by people because I’m not play up to their standards.

Then: Our scrims were to enjoy the game. Win or lose, it was for fun.
Now: The clan cares about wining more then fun.

Then: You messaged anyone you saw on xfire if there was a scrim
Now: Clan members only seem to either ask those to scrim who have a higher value of skill or are in their "click"

Then: When a scrim ended, players rotated in and out with those who were in spec waiting.
Now: Decisions on who stays in are more decided on skill and winning.

Then: We tried to include everyone in every scrim we could. Trying to have everyone take part in the clan.
Now: Clicks and skill again override that.

Then: We did not argue with other clans no matter what they said about us. THAT’S how we gained respect.
Now: We feel the need to "defend" the clan....in a video game....online with people we don't even know.

Then: We all talked to each other in private regarding any personal problems we had with each other.
Now: We post in the forums our dirty laundry.

Then: The decisions made in the clan weren’t questioned except in private.
Now: People again, post negatively without coming to the leaders.

Then: The posts made were in fun and light hearted.
Now: The forums have a dark cloud at times of drama and personal feelings.

There are so many more changes I can state, but we need to put all that behind us....get rid of the now, and go back to the then.

I am posting a new member list. If your name is on it, you are in pWp. If your name is not on it, frog and I have decided that you are no longer apart of the clan. The decisions of why some are no longer on the member list vary, so if you are no longer in the clan, feel free to message frog and I for the reasons. There is also a structure change. The roles posted will be the new roles of each member.

Pending decisions will be posted at the bottom of the list. If you are on the pending list, it is due to frog and I needing to discuss some things with you before a final decision. It does not mean you are being removed from the clan. We just want to talk to you about a few things if you are inclined to do so.

Admin/Founder

*pWp*T@D*
*pWp*FRoG*

Members

*pWp*Big*Buck*
*pWp*Sync*
*pWp*Turtle*
*pWp*Juggernaut*
*pWp*Killbox*
*pWp*Azu *
*pWp*Tomma*
*pWp*AltF4*
*pWp*McDonalds*
*pWp*Wrath*
*pWp*RustySpoon*
*pWp*tr[!]gun*
*pWp*Neko*
*pWp*BlaZe*
*pWp*Asian*
*pWp*Snipeja*
*pWp*Poison*
*pWp*Ghost*
*pWp*W!feY*
*pWp*Shadow*
*pWp*HoOL*
*pWp*K!N$L3R*
*pWp*comprichard*
*pWp*Squ!rrel*
*pWp*Max!ma*
*pWp*Xtreme*
*pWp*Spartan*
*pWp*DavidD*
*pWp*A$H*
*pWp*k0*
*pWp*Tool*

Pending Memberships
*pWp*WakeY*
*pWp*Ant*
*pWp*Abyss*


I included everyone that is in the clan. If you are not on the list, please remove the tags. You are no longer in pwp. There is no longer anyone on trials. Activity will no longer be an issue. Once you are accepted into the pwp family, you will always be accepted into the pwp family until you decide its time for you to move on.

If you are on the list and would like to leave the family, please post. Leaving the clan will not be looked down upon; it is everyone’s personal decision.

Your decisions should be based on this post. Whether or not you feel you fit in to the way pwp is suppose to be. The way pwp is going to be.

I’ll give a few things to think about to help you decide if this is the right place for you. Answer these questions honestly to yourself.

Do I care if I win or lose?
Do I get mad at clan members who play bad in scrims?
Is teamwork more important then fun?
Do I need to post my personal dislikes of others in the forums?
Do I not want to include clan members in scrims due to personal reasons?
Do I not feel apart of the family?
Do I not want to get to know everyone in the clan?


If you personally answer any one of these questions with a YES, then maybe this is not the right clan for you. This is what the clan was built on, and this is where it’s going. If you find yourself questioning any parts of this,that may be an indication this is no longer a suitable home for you.

I have posted on many occasions “if the clan ends up just frog and I again, I’m ok with that”. That still stands. That will always stand.

It’s time for those still on the list to decide if you are part of this or not. It’s going back to being a family, plain and simple.

Here are a few more notes on how things will work:

Dallas is not a *pWp* server. Acid is the sole owner of the server. It will be his decision whether or not the ref section stays in the pwp forums or not and who the ref’s are.

Decisions made in the clan on all aspects including new memberships are reserved for Frog me only. However, we are always up for suggestions, feel free to post or contact any one of us. We are not saying no ones opinions matter by any means, we are just taking full responsibility of what steps the clan takes in the future.

The join topic will remain closed until further notice.

There will be quite a bit of topics removed from the forums that are not inline with the way pwp is suppose to be. They will not be deleted; they will be moved to a place they can not be seen. Therefore, you will not lose post count if that’s important to you.

The {F&F}.Cl@n. will become a club. Further details on that and the server will come soon.

Lastly. I know a few people will say or think “But you are the one who left”. I did, but I can’t see myself losing all the work frog and I put into this. Reaper and buck opened my eyes a lot. If the clan is not what frog and I want it to be, make it that way.

Also, I will take a lot of the blame for what the clan has become in a way. I am not saying “hey, you guys screwed everything up”. I was part of it as well. I made mistakes. I followed the wrong direction many times as well. I see those mistakes now. Now they will be fixed.

That’s what we are going to do.

The ball is in your court now. Time to decide what is best for you; we have decided what is best for the clan.

In either sense, GL in what ever decisions you make.

Sincerely,

T@D and FRoG

Well, almost 1600 views....seems like everyone got to read it. Sad to say, most took out of it an unclear inturpitation, but thats to be expected I suppose in a game with such a large range of ages and other differences. It was just a little dissapointing to hear some people say "im leaving since the clan dosent want to practice anymore" or "im leaving becasue I want to win and you don't".

I think what bothered me the most, and this dosent apply to everyone, is the fact that they either forgot what pwp was and did for them, or it didn't really mean anything. One main reason I came back was I thought to myself "where would I be in this game if not for pwp". I would have never made some friends I did. I would have never owned the #1 server in the country. I wouldnt have learned so much about servers...ect. Granted, being a co-founder did make my answer different then some, but it really seems most that decided to leave didnt take that step back. WHere would you be if not for pwp? Like frog has said, it was great to watch people grow in the clan. Watch their teamwork get better, their skill get better, their interactions with people get better. Alot of people "grew up" due to the clan, but it seems thats forgotten to them. Forgotten is what was handed to them, forgotten was the loyalty. I think that was what was the most sad to see in all of this. The clan didn't "change"...it changed back. We wernt taking things twards a different direction, we were getting back on track. Changes were allowed and things happened that needed to be fixed. They are now. Things are back to the same way as when all of the people that left, posted for the clan. The reasons people posted to join the clan was never due to skill, it was due to the respect we had. The respect we worked very hard to get. We didn't gain that by winning, we gained it on showing respect. It's seems that was forgotten by quite a few.

Well, times go on I suppose. I thank you all who are sticking it out, you have shown true loyalty and have my utmost respect. You have shown you havent lost the qualities that are the reason you were allowed into the clan at the beginning.

Lastly, food for thought. If wining did anything for me in real life.....I would change my views. If winning a scrim paid my bills, I would be the best out there. Everytime you win a scrim, no matter who it's against.....Let me know if there some special miracle that happens after you power down your computer.....casue I havent got 1. I have however learnec alot more about loyalty and commitment.


-T@D-

wise words from a fat guy
well sorry shit turned out this way but the how i see it, its for the better ;D
you honestly didnt need all thoughs people in the clan.
like they say "the bigger they are the harder they fall."

Uhm ok... it's not because someone take the decision to leave that he forgot everything pwp did for them... I think that most of the ppl who left know this and thanks pwp for it. However they took this decisio for several reason u already know.

Also about the respect... no offenc but after the couple of days u left I never seen pwp go so well withall the practice and playing and the fun that was around zone... every time I was going there like 10 pwp was there having fun... scriming... losing or winning still fun and all gg were said by everyone so I rly dont know what was wrong into this lol

ON a final note to answer a bit fo ur question... I don't have a clear answer for this but let's take in on other sports... What does it give to a habs fan... a bruins fan... a patriots fans or whatever fan u are to see ur favorite team win... absolutely nothing. But most of us are still fans and theres nothing wrong in this. On a sarcastic note.... maybe im the only one but I don't play this game for losing all the time... Wining is just a part where im proud of myself... my team... and the way we played... when we lost it's the same, but losing constantly just get boring ( at least for me and the one who decided to elave due of the skill )

we dont lose al the tiem hell i havint palye din months and i won a scrim agest 2k9 with frog and spratint .. i even bet tad in a 1v1 an di havint palye din for ever it abut fun that all

to me you all just dum ass and dont knwo the real pWp

SeeNagE wrote:
like they say "the bigger they are the harder they fall."

Who fell? I dont' get that thought really. We seem pretty alive to me.

And killer...ill chaulk it up to a language barrier, but you still missread everything I say.

B|K and Turtle did say TY. Most said they wanted more competition. The funny thing was the "Im shocked" comment from someone, but oh well.

You said "Wining is just a part where im proud of myself... my team... and the way we played... when we lost it's the same" Winning is always a good feeling, losing is a time to learn. That has not changed. What I said, again, if you read things is that noone should be treated different if someone is not as as skilled as someone else. THATS what was happening. Maybe the people who never had that problem were in the "clicks" I mentioned. I did't crap on anyone, or point fingers....I stated problems that some saw. I brought things out that a few didn't want to post. That saddened me that they were scared to post what they felt thinking they would be ousted. Thats changed now. The pwp section is open to any opinions w/o the fear of being treated differently.

Alot of mistakes were made, some of them mine. I do how ever do my best to say the same things as my actions to show. Nothing is worse thn to see a spammer say "I hate spammers" or a clanhopper crap on someone who does the same...or an ex-hacker passing judgement on other ex-hackers.

Do your best in life to think before you act. It will solve alot of problems. I have made the mistake of not doing that...but learning from your mistakes is what the goal in life is.

that is how i live my life, learning from mistakes, everyday another challenge and its really those who play a game for the simple fact of enjoying the hobby and the company of good friends, all that feel the same, those who want to endure in the game to their full capability, when it comes to everyday life, you sorta put yourself in whole different setting. We can only try to be the best, but when it comes down to it, we all need to just be grateful for what we have, and give thanks to one another for making it all happen.

What u said is "Let me know if there some special miracle that happens after you power down your computer.....casue I havent got 1" and I tryed to answer this

"if you read things is that noone should be treated different if someone is not as as skilled as someone else"

I don't have buck's quote but when u left I asked him what he was gonna do with the clan n stuff, will he kick some ppl n decision.

He told me he wasn't and he was just gonna play and train with EVERYONE and this was they gonna get better and we gonna be better as a clan. I think he was so right. And thats what was hapening lately.

Also, I can't talk for other but.. personally I didn't try to incorporate special ppl in a scrim based on skill... I scrimed with wifey in begining when I joined lot of time... I also did with snipe and others...

I know this isn't only aiming at me but the only thing is like you said.. some ppl didn't feel comfortable in posting opinion and that they were sad... but u know sometime we just don't notice stuff and if some1 can't say that they are still in spec and they'd like to play... we can't know...

The click hm... when ur talking about that it's weird cause i never got to know who was into this and who wasn't... I just think we were way too many ppl in this clan to know everyone and personally I had some good friends that I was scriming a lot with but I think everyone was open to talk with each other... just have to take ur place, can't do it for ya.

( Could you tell me who was in this click )

whan ever one joined pWp i was an a out side in pWp tht why i left but im happy know and i really dont care what gos on

Omfg. Seriously, I never saw someone have to sit out because of skill level. I know for a fact me and especially acid would sit out on scrims to let others play. If by one player (apparently neko cause he keeps being a whiny douche bag still) you think people got left out.. Ridiculous. When I first joined Neko was a decent player and loyal. After some time he left the clan and was playing some bull-crap game "Flyff" ended up leaving pwp. And have you ever really cared about what goes in pwp neko? I can probably say I didn't want to play with you besides even talk to you really NOT BECAUSE OF SKILL LEVEL. Because of your disloyalty and inactiveness within the clan and in game. Don't bull crap when whatever happened to you in the clan was at your own fault.

lol, you got a new target now... huh reck? don't waste your time, neko knows better, he ain't gonna fuel the fire your trying to start.

Oh and btw. I'm sure I, Myself along with probably quite a few others would know what i'm talking about when I say...
when neko showed up in zone asking to play, we offered to get scrims together that would include neko but he ended up leaving. Same ol' same ol'.... Crying wolf ftw neko? Play more 2479 hours of flyff >.>

well im not gonig to fuil the fire to say bitch at me if it make you feel good but i don tplay flyff my gf dose and iv been loyo to pwp for ever i havea tatto i left cpuse it started to get stuped and i was trying to ge tmy life to gather and i havea kid on the why so do somthing els beside fuck wit me you my see me play flyff or quake3 once and a blue moon
and why i have so many hr in it is couse of living shop up whan i go to sleep or my girl palying whan im working it qwould be good for you to find a batter game than one man have fun later
the god of form harassment rec

Reckoning wrote:Omfg. Seriously, I never saw someone have to sit out because of skill level. I know for a fact me and especially acid would sit out on scrims to let others play. If by one player (apparently neko cause he keeps being a whiny douche bag still) you think people got left out.. Ridiculous. When I first joined Neko was a decent player and loyal. After some time he left the clan and was playing some bull-crap game "Flyff" ended up leaving pwp. And have you ever really cared about what goes in pwp neko? I can probably say I didn't want to play with you besides even talk to you really NOT BECAUSE OF SKILL LEVEL. Because of your disloyalty and inactiveness within the clan and in game. Don't bull crap when whatever happened to you in the clan was at your own fault.

\

,mmm well you not pWp any more why
just live me alone tho whatever veant to me if yo uneed to i dont care let it out man

none of my business but is spartan back in pWp..just curious!

Thanks and gL.. pWp

yes

woah lots of pageesssss. just wanted to say that although i dont exactly agree with your decision, i support the fact that u had the balls, and did what u thought was nescisary and right.

hope everything works out for ya tad <3

1771 views wow!

clan. If you are not on the list, please remove the tags. You are no longer in pwp

Ouchhh.

Rambo wrote:

clan. If you are not on the list, please remove the tags. You are no longer in pwp

Ouchhh.

rambo isnt on the list!

im guessing its a mistake...

yes it is, sorry rambo its added back on there.

<3 pWp

same boner

Dude it's RAMBO!!! I haven't seen/talked to you in fucking AGES dude! Same goes to most/all of you older pWp scouts Well I see things have finally reset themselves and are starting to shift to the old ways. I'm glad you are taking this turn. I'll try to be more active in the forums now and get to know everyone again.

I miss you guys, and I'm sad to see my old friends leave the clan because of some misunderstandings and hard feelings, but I guess we all move on. =/

The ONE THING I don't understand is that in Tad's list (which is very accurate and correct) it says that you wanted a turn for the better to stop the arguing going on between people in/outside of the clan...Yet, I see in this topic SO much flaming and arguments from both sides. It's extremely contradicting... Whatever bad is said about pWp, just fuck whoever said it and IGNORE IT. Don't feel the need to start a fight.

Otherwise GL! I hope to get Xfire back if vista lets me LOL

Take care guys,
-ToT@L

totaly agreed... hiding stuff don't help a lot about shit talkin tough :S

T@D wrote:Everytime you win a scrim, no matter who it's against.....Let me know if there some special miracle that happens after you power down your computer.....casue I havent got 1. -T@D-

Uhh if your a dick, like me. You have the oppertunity to know you just made some kid 1000's of miles away from you depressed because of how bad you beat him/her.

I'm a dick lol.