God or not.

First topic message reminder :

You can't find a better starting topic then to debate the existing of God... or it being one of the worlds largest lies. Cultures on every single land space believe in some sort of higher power.


What do you think?

tool wrote:I could not have said it any better myself Tad. I look at all the assholes, douchebags, dumbasses, and cockgobblers around the world and realize that God is not the one who fucks everything up or makes people good or bad, it's our own race!

I know Im not suppose to quote the post above me... but I have to.

Tool... In no way was I calling anyone that believes in God, names. I don't think they are any less intelligent then I am, you are, or anyone. I just don't believe in their "faith". People that believe in God are perfectly fine. They believe 1 thing, I believe another. I am looking forward to debating this wiht anyone who believes... but I cant say anyone who does is "wrong".

As an aside, it's perfectly fine to quote the post above you to highlight a particular part or deconstruct an argument, the intention of the rule is to avoid having to scroll down the same exact post you just read, when it's implied you're replying to the above poster in the forum structure.

I didn't really take the time to read tads or tools post but I will soon but I just want to say God did not intend on us to live this way. Adam and Eve had the perfect life until sin happened. Everything that you see on this Earth such as buildings and such was not Gods creation. Nature and the beauty of the Earth is.

Also how do you explain the Chariots Wheels?

http://images.google.com/images?q=red%20sea%20chariot%20wheels&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

virtuosity wrote:I didn't really take the time to read tads or tools post but I will soon but I just want to say God did not intend on us to live this way. Adam and Eve had the perfect life until sin happened.

Im being serious... I really am. This is the first hole to me in all of this.


According to the bible..... He creates man, and then woman. Prior to a child, or anything.. they had one rule. Don't eat from that tree. Thats it. Seems simple. But according to the bible, the woman ate... and then had the man eat. From that moment on child birth hurt (according to the bible) disease was born, wearing clothes was a conscious decision.... and mankind, for all of eternity was damned to sin (if they chose to). So... this "god" made a world. Loved it. Made trillions of species but only made one after his own image. He made them to understand him and have a decision making understanding...... and gave them a specific tree and said "hey... by the way, you can have everything but that".? What?!?! Three easy questions. 1. Why make the tree. 2. Why give them the ability of choice. 3. If God KNOWS whats going to already happen... why bother?


The bible is full of heart warming and great stories that help fill in gaps for those who believe in God. Im not saying those people are dumb... but I do believe they are relying more on faith then actually taking the time to consider the options.

http://www.gotquestions.org/tree-knowledge-good-evil.html

There is the answer.

I want to say something about Haiti but I can't because I don't want to put my foot in my mouth when I don't have the facts 100% right

I read the first line... and thats it. That goes back to my question.....why? How can you be a loving "father" and give the chance to make a mistake.

Look at it this way.... I don't let my kids play with knives, guns, rocket launchers, or rail guns... why? Because I actually care about them and don't want them to get hurt. I also wont drop a kilo of coke in their lap on their 16th birthday... why? Cause I care. A caring father takes the time and makes an effort to remove, at their best, even the opportunity to make a mistake or get hurt.

If thats a fact, which it is.... why would a loving God offer a chance to ruin the species he created? Why not tempt a butterfly? Ya... the bible says the snake paid for that "sin" as well.... but was it the snakes fault? According to the bible.... Satan took the form of a snake... but yet he made all snakes live on their belly?


Come on.

I read the rest of that website you sent, Virt. Honestly it looks like it was put together and written by someone in Sunday-school. The ideas and ideals are way off in my opinion. Comprehensively there is no coherent thought on that page that can't easily be passed by with a simple "are you serious?"


According to that person, God lied to man....

"Genesis 2:16-17, “And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’......."

"There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge."

So God said it was evil, and they would die.... but it wasn't evil.... and they didn't die?

Going off of that website... well, I wouldn't.

LOL! Well I read it and am not sure how true that is but that is the top link on google.

See if I had someone that actually read the whole bible and knew everything such as some family members they could explain it.

virtuosity wrote:LOL! Well I read it and am not sure how true that is but that is the top link on google.

See if I had someone that actually read the whole bible and knew everything such as some family members they could explain it.

I was brought up in church and I have read the bible, cover to cover....5 times. Anything you want to ask... ask me. < illegal smiley.

T@D wrote:

tool wrote:I could not have said it any better myself Tad. I look at all the assholes, douchebags, dumbasses, and cockgobblers around the world and realize that God is not the one who fucks everything up or makes people good or bad, it's our own race!

Tool... In no way was I calling anyone that believes in God, names. I don't think they are any less intelligent then I am, you are, or anyone. I just don't believe in their "faith". People that believe in God are perfectly fine. They believe 1 thing, I believe another. I am looking forward to debating this wiht anyone who believes... but I cant say anyone who does is "wrong".

Neither was I. The assholes, douchebags, dumbasses, and cockgobblers I was referring to are the corrupted politicians, religious officials, and the educational authorities that think they have power over everyone else and can use that power to benefit themselves and screw over anyone they see fit. I have a lot of friends who believe in God, and I'm not bashing them for it. I may be Atheist, but I'm very tolerant of peoples' habits and beliefs.

im probably the only person in my family who does not believe in god. well im not a total atheist, because the only thing i dont believe is that he created the earth, the oceans etc. after i took earth science and astronmy last year i believed in the big bang theory. the only things i believe are armageddon and either you ascend to heaven or descend to hell.

i honestly don't know what i am anymore, i used to be a catholic, but now that i am older and can form my own opinions i start to see the idiocy of religion.
here are a few points

1) In the ten commandments does it not say 'thou shalt not murder' yet religion has caused many wars, devastation, and the crusades?
2) In the bible a section tells of when GOD lets a DEMON kill a man, one of his creations, because he was a bad person. If this god was such a great being would he allow this treachery to go on, the answer is no.
3) Many religions are criticized by other religions when in those same societies they are taught to forgive and to forget, to love each brother for who they are.
4) Going to church doesn't make you anymore a Christian than standing in a garage makes me a car.


Also in response to virtuosity, are you blind or just dumb?
We know that evolution has occurred, whether you chose to ignore it or accept it is your own choice. We know that someone built that building because it was witnessed by people. What evidence shows the existence of god? The bible? A STORY that was written thousands of years ago? Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just possibly the bible was a fictional STORY? No, most likely you haven't. Why? Because you are supposed to believe blindly. Not to think for yourself, you must believe this, you must believe that. There is no more reason to believe in god than to fear the giant flying three-headed hamster that lives in the Sky Kingdom.

and one more thing for virtuosity, like so many have stated and that website stated, god gave them free will, that is fine, but to put a tree of good and evil(the tree of knowledge) into the garden and say you may eat from any tree but that tree is just plain stupid. If god was/is real and is all-knowing why would he allow this tree to exist? Just because he wanted to see if we would eat from it? Are you familiar with Greek or Roman Mythology? This relates perfectly. Maybe like the Greeks and Romans, the ancient city's in Jerusalem and the surrounding area made up their own belief to explain why such things happened. The ancient Greeks made up myths for two reasons 1) to teach and 2)to explain isn't the bible just another way to teach and explain things to man.
well this is what i believe.

Damn, this guy has some pretty good arguments.

God is nothing but something made to frighten people of beeing evil.

k1llampt wrote:i honestly don't know what i am anymore, i used to be a catholic, but now that i am older and can form my own opinions i start to see the idiocy of religion.
here are a few points

1) In the ten commandments does it not say 'thou shalt not murder' yet religion has caused many wars, devastation, and the crusades?
2) In the bible a section tells of when GOD lets a DEMON kill a man, one of his creations, because he was a bad person. If this god was such a great being would he allow this treachery to go on, the answer is no.
3) Many religions are criticized by other religions when in those same societies they are taught to forgive and to forget, to love each brother for who they are.
4) Going to church doesn't make you anymore a Christian than standing in a garage makes me a car.


Also in response to virtuosity, are you blind or just dumb?
We know that evolution has occurred, whether you chose to ignore it or accept it is your own choice. We know that someone built that building because it was witnessed by people. What evidence shows the existence of god? The bible? A STORY that was written thousands of years ago? Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just possibly the bible was a fictional STORY? No, most likely you haven't. Why? Because you are supposed to believe blindly. Not to think for yourself, you must believe this, you must believe that. There is no more reason to believe in god than to fear the giant flying three-headed hamster that lives in the Sky Kingdom.

Well let me start of by saying who told you that if you go to church that it makes you more Christian then others? Who ever told you that is a fool. No where in the bible does it state that going to church makes you a better person. You talk about the ten commandments and such, just because the ten commandments are there doesn't mean people aren't going to sin and do wrong. Also don't be going off calling people dumb because it is a belief in which I believe in. How can you call the bible fictional? Read Revelation because it proves that the person who wrote it clearly knew what he was talking about. Also that is bullshit about believing blindly.. You think just because I was told to believe in something and not question it means I will do as they say? I believe in my religion for my own person reasons. Maybe you should put yourself in someone else shoes before you call another dumb.

well first just because i BELIEVE you are dumb does not make you dumb, and just because you BELIEVE in 'god' does not make him exist.

My point about the ten commandments is that they were made to give man a moral code and to TEACH them right from wrong. The bible can not be proven to be a true account, nor can it be proven false, but i believe that it is. The Greeks did it, the Romans did it, the Egyptians did it, the Mayans did it, virtually every society in history has their own myths to TEACH man about certain mysteries that can not be explained without some elaborate story.

The bible is merely a story designed for entertainment. What evidence other than the bible do you have, if you can show me do so.

and another thing is that i have been there, i USED to be a Catholic but my eyes were opened to the real world. Even if you yourself don't believe blindly, a lot of others do. You can not say that there has been no such thing as evolution or you are an idiot. You can say 'god' does or doesn't exist because there are no hard facts proving either to be true. I believe that the bible is nothing more than the greatest myth ever written.

Are you telling me you don't believe in evolution? well here is something to think about.

God created the earth in 7 days right? well that would mean man and the dinosaurs existed at the same time. This is an impossibility. So it's either a flaw in the bible, evolution has occurred which means god didn't create man(another flaw), or god created man later(yet another flaw)

Apparently none of you are understanding what I mean by not believing in evolution. I don't know what religion it is but a religion believes that man came from the Earth, that we came from a single celled organism and grew from that cell. If this was the case in what part of the process did blood get introduced? I do believe in evolving things just not the story that we came from a single celled organism.

>.<

i am a mixture mostly of both, i do not believe completely in any god, but i also do not believe that we evolved from something like a fucking tadpole either

you claim to be athiest i have one question for you
How can you claim something does not exist without its existance to begin with?

Also about the Dinosaur topic I do believe man & Dinosaurs existed. In the bible I believe it is revelations they talk about us (man) finding unknown species everyday. Well what species is this? In the Area 51 topic there was brought up that they were aliens but come on just as you said you can't exactly prove with just the bible that God does or does not exist. Now that being said what proof do we have of aliens? Non, you can't prove it nor disprove it. BUT if you think about this unknown species and how the bible mentions about "Dragons" well were there really dragons? OR were they actually Dinosaurs? As to many cultures have myths about giant reptiles well this is because they were actually seen. Also read this page:
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dinoscoexist.html

You don't believe completely in any God? So you believe somewhat but not fully?

i never claimed to be an atheist, maybe you should actually read the post, not once did i claim(using your words) to be an atheist

yes virtuosity, i somewhat believe, but some parts i find hard to believe.

I think he assumed that because you sort of said you don't believe in anything lol

EDIT: Well explain what parts