Chaos in the Ps3 Scene! Retaliation toward Sony

If any of you haven't been reading up on what's currently going on in the Playstation scene pertaining to the Playstation 3 console as of now, here's a few things to get you caught up to the basic level.

George Hotz was sued for bypassing the security in his own playstation 3 console that he paid for, and distributing the exploit on the internet. this, in time, kickstarted the ps3 hacking scene, with lawsuits, custom firmwares, jailbreak dongles, DMCA takedowns, and bans everywhere.

as of a few days ago, a group, announcing themselves as "Anonymous" has taken down
Sony.com (now back online though unfortunately) and Playstation.com (still down as of a few hours ago)

More Information found here: http://www.nextgenupdate.com/forums/playstation-3-exploits-hacks/363916-anon-brought-down-sony-com-playstation-com-cause-behind-maintenance.html

announcement:





i, to be honest, fully support what they're doing. Sony has done quite a few things to piss people off, i believe it's time they got a taste of the anger that we (the consumers) feel toward them for the unlawful removal of an advertised feature (OtherOS support), among other feature removals/security failures (the credit card leaks).

And the debate is...?

lol hopefully anonymous will go through with what they r saying this time xD... and i if sony doesnt like ppl jailbreaking it.. i think they should just try and prevent it instead of banning ppl or whatever.. but i personally dont think its a bad thing :/

Angel wrote:
lol hopefully anonymous will go through with what they r saying this time xD... and i if sony doesnt like ppl jailbreaking it.. i think they should just try and prevent it instead of banning ppl or whatever.. but i personally dont think its a bad thing :/

This is a confusing post. "i think they should just try and prevent it instead of banning ppl or whatever.." I assume, as I should, that jailbreaking/mods/root hacks were not what Sony intended consumers to do. That is why in their ToS they state "You may not use, make, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware in conjunction with PSN, or take or use any data from PSN to design, develop or update unauthorized software or hardware, including but not limited to cheat code software or devices that circumvent any security features or limitations included on any software or devices.
You may not modify or attempt to modify the online client, disc, save file, server, client-server communication, or other parts of any game title, or content.
You may not cause disruption to any account, system, hardware, software, or network connected to PSN for any reason, including to gain an unfair advantage in a game.
You may not attempt to hack or reverse engineer any code or equipment in connection with PSN."

If you purchase a PS, you have agreed to those terms.


What do you expect them to do? Plant C4 inside the console and have every system some with a personal console guard that stands behind you everytime you touch the system to make sure you are using it as intended? What steps do you expect them to take? It took years for someone to actually be able to hack the copyright protection in the root proving they do try and prevent hacking/moding. Think about a company who makes kitchen knives, do you think they are not doing enough to prevent their product being used as a murder weapon?

Just because a company creates a product that can be used illegally or does not mean they are not doing enough to prevent it from happening, or should take no recourse they can to do so. If someone is using illegal programs on their PS, xbox, or wii.... the companies should be able to lock they system. The person who purchased the equipment as agreed upon purchase not to do any changes, so they are in breach of contract and should be held accountable.

Hacking systems are the same as hacking in an individual game. Purchased game or console or not, you should lose all right to the game or console for being in breach of contract.
If electronic companies started dropping the hammer faster and harder, maybe there would be less ass-bags hacking out there.

In life, just because you "can", doesn't always mean you "should".

I'm still confused as to what is being discussed/debated...

Basically, someone hacked the PS3. They believe, since they bought it, they can do what they please. Granted, every purchaser agreed to the ToS... they decided they don't want to follow that. Anon brought down the site because they believe in their "right to hack".

Argue your for/against and why.

well T@D, technically when you sign up for a PSN account, you agree to the TOS, if you do not play online, it's technically completely legal. i have a separate ps3 specifically for homebrew, and it has no connection to the internet in any way. as stated by many people in the scene already, "homebrew is 100% legal". so long as you don't register a psn acount on a specific ps3 console that you've purchased, you can do whatever you want, since you aren't bound by any TOS/regulations.

my ps3 has:
Geohot 3.55 CFW
homebrew programs include:
Comgenie's Awesome File Manager
VBA Ps3 port (gba emulator)
and modded files for:
Grand Theft Auto IV
Call of Duty: World at War
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Call of Duty: Black Ops

playing offline with mods in Call of duty is fun for explorative reasons in my opinion, there are no psn accounts registered with it and it isn't configured with any net connectivity, therefore, it's legal and sony can't do anything about it.

Jailbreaking is only legal if you do not use the new settings illegally. Although changing the software is your prerogative, Sony obviously disregards your warranty by doing so. But the question is, why bother jailbreaking? The first time you use it to play any type of pirated game, it becomes illegal.

I have a Wii. It is capable of playing DVD's, but I can't unless it is jailbroken. If I did that to play DVD's, Nintendo, although will try and patch the firmware often to stop jailbreaks, realistically looses no money. If I was to do it and download a game, then the jailbreaking becomes illegal.

So, although you are not using the PSN, you having an emulator for the game boy, if playing games you have not purchased, is illegal.

The ToS I posted was for the PSN, I didn't look... but I can guarantee that the ToS for the console says you will not modify the software or hardware. You don't have to have it connected to the PSN to have it be illegal.

Homebrew games made my normal people under the general public use license are totally legal, there have been those kind of games for every recent "jailbroken" system. PS3 will be no exception. Yes most people will want to play pirated games but not everybody. I have a friend with a "jailbroken" wii who uses it to play dvd's but still goes out and buys full priced games. Not every game is worth the big price tag anyway.

indeed T@D, jailbreaking can, of course, be used for illegal activity, but is not itself in violation of any laws or console-specific terms of service. i'm pretty sure they don't have a TOS for purchasing a ps3, only for online content.

and emulation is questionable, but as far as i know, is legal IF you actually own a legitimate copy of the games you're emulating, which i do.

It is a violation of your ToS when you purchase the PS3, and agree to the terms. Like I said, I had posted the PSN ToS, but here is the console ToS.

PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.

ACCESS TO OR USE OF THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE IN THE SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT INC. ("SCE")'S PlayStation®3 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM UNIT ("PS3TM system") IS EXPRESSLY CONDITIONED UPON ACCEPTANCE OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT.

of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3TM system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3TM system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3TM system for any reason. Any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3TM system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies.



You don't really think that Sony would not add to their ToS to not modify or add to the system? The only place I found that legalized JB'ing the PS3 is Spain. Anywhere outside of there, it is illegal. It has been deemed legal so far only for the iphone in the US.

I honestly don't care either way, but I read a page from the person being sued. He is acting like he has no clue why sony is upset, he didn't do anything. "It was my property, don't blame me for exploiting your bad security"...... What? Who else is to blame? No one came to his house and told him to hack the system. He did it by choice, and now wants to be hailed a victim. Sad.

I think piracy is a problem to an extent, but I can see both sides. I'm just sick of seeing the console users whine because they get sued for hacking a system. I am a PC gamer, I can't "rent" games. You can. I can't "try before I buy", you can. If you rent a game and it sucks, you take it back and lose $5. If I want to try a game I have to buy it, if it sucks I can be out $60.

Quit bitching, use the system the way it was made or quit buying consoles.

You lie. If you want to try a game you will torrent it. Don't pretend you haven't done it before.

Anyway. The only reason I would buy a console is to play pirated games. I can afford $2 for a game, I can't afford 40+!

Merky wrote:You lie. If you want to try a game you will torrent it. Don't pretend you haven't done it before.

I can try single player games only. Games that interest me that are multiplayer, I can not try those w/o a purchase.

There's no way to spin it, hacking the PS3 is against the agreement you made when you paid for it and Sony is well within its' rights to sue those who break it. Simply put, Sony's brand is hurt when you jailbreak your PS3 because the experience they sold you is now altered. It's the same case with the famous Hackintosh ordeal, even if you bought the Mac OS legally, it breaks the TOS to install it in a non-macintosh computer because you simply won't be getting the Mac experience that the brand has been built on.

Let's be real here, Sony has no problem with this guy jailbreaking the PS3, it has a problem with him distributing the software to others. He could have gone his merry way were he not sending this to others, who will most likely have issues installing the hack or may even be prone to be hacked by the hack itself, which is all terrible news to the Playstation brand because now it has a bunch of PS3 of which they have no control of yet they carry their brand name.

And for those of you who are not aware, the "anonymous" group is the retarded teenagers that frequent 4chan and regularly do these kind of vigilante shit that almost always ends up terribly for all parts involved. It's a bunch of ignorant people with a terrible hive-mind that is always out of their control.

pornfish, i did read somewhere that the FBI was already involved with this group previously, saying that this same group attacked a bunch of websites for copyright enforcement agencies though. but i honestly don't think a bunch of 4chan kiddies would have the balls to do something like this, do you?

but yes, geohotz is being sued mostly for the open distribution of the hack on his website.
which sony has taken some very controversial action in the subject, they've looked up all the IP addresses that downloaded the file from his website, and they were allowed to look through IP's that watched his videos on youtube, and they're even going so far as to take down every website they can that hosts information such as the root keys/dev files/etc. a lot of people look down upon their actions during this case, saying it's an act of desperation to re-secure their broken console.

on other notes of sony's past actions, i'm sure anyone who has basic knowledge of sony media knows all about the CD rootkits.

It is compromised of a bunch of 4chan kids. They never have hidden that and if you look at "most" announcements they make, they do it on 4chan first.

I don't think anything Sony has done, at least that you mentioned, is controversial at all. They are doing what they can to protect their product and brand. With out that, they have nothing as a company. If they were able to gain IP's, names, addresses.... then they went through legal ways to do so. The only people that are looking down on them are the people involved, I assume. If you bought a PS3, played it as it was intended after agreeing with the ToS, then I assume nothing really has effected you.

Here's how this looks to normal people:

"Oh, hey, I got a new PS3!"
"I know by using it, I have agreed not to do any type of modifications, but I don't care about the legally binding contract I have entered"
"Lookie, I have hacked the PS3!!"
"Wait, Why is Sony mad that I breached my contract with them?"
"Hold on, because I illegally distributed software that blatantly disregards the contract I agreed with, Sony is going to sue me??"
"I can't believe a large company is going to any means they can to sue me just for potentially making them loose millions of dollars"
"I am the victim, I did nothing wrong!!"

I read that guys page, he is full of shit. All he basically says is he is the victim and he wants help to "stick it to Sony". He made the decision to hack and distribute the hack, he should be held accountable.... and quit being a whiny douche.

Don't think for one second that the person/people involved never thought "hey, I wonder if this is legal". They knew it was not. The PS3 was designed for what Sony intended. Stick with that and who cares what they do or how they react to people that have abused their products.

I comment Sony for going after them. It is their right to protect their brand through all legal ways, which it seems they have.

according to responses from sony, the DDoS attacks from Anonymous are referred to as "a mild annoyance", and Sony says they'll just wait it out until Anonymous gets bored and moves on.

the new IRC logs really confirmed what Virt said earlier though. a bunch of 4chan regulars with LOIC.

---

@tad: geohot was out to enable homebrew, which isn't illegal at all, considering he paid for his ps3 and can do whatever he wishes with HIS console, the only wrong thing he did was distribute it all over the place. also, another hacker that was taken down was fail0verflow, who had an even more noble idea than geohot, to re-enable an ADVERTISED feature that many people bought their ps3 specifically for, that Sony wrongfully removed, OtherOS/Linux support.

a bit un-related, but still on the Sony subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

T@D wrote:It is a violation of your ToS when you purchase the PS3, and agree to the terms. Like I said, I had posted the PSN ToS, but here is the console ToS.

PLEASE READ THIS SYSTEM SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.

ACCESS TO OR USE OF THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE IN THE SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT INC. ("SCE")'S PlayStation®3 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM UNIT ("PS3TM system") IS EXPRESSLY CONDITIONED UPON ACCEPTANCE OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT.

of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3TM system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3TM system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3TM system for any reason. Any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3TM system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies.

Roachleader wrote:
@tad: geohot was out to enable homebrew, which isn't illegal at all, considering he paid for his ps3 and can do whatever he wishes with HIS console, the only wrong thing he did was distribute it all over the place. also, another hacker that was taken down was fail0verflow, who had an even more noble idea than geohot, to re-enable an ADVERTISED feature that many people bought their ps3 specifically for, that Sony wrongfully removed, OtherOS/Linux support.

Sony has every right to add/remove software to their systems at their will. "Owners" of a system, however, do not. Adding ANY unauthorized software is a violation of the Sony ToS that you agree to when you plug the system in.

Like I said, I don't care really... but what it comes down to is you do not have a "right" because you purchased the system and say "but it's mine". If you truely believe that, then you must believe that Sony can alter the system since they "own" the software it is running. It is foolish to believe that even though you agreed to a contract with sony, you can still do what you want. Thats extremely an elementary way of thinking.

If you plug in a PS3 you have agreed to the terms they laid out. If you breach that contract, they have every right to alter their coding as much as they want as long as the system continues to perform to their specs. Homebrew is not a sony authorized program. By having that, you are engaging in illegal activity..... no matter how you want to look at it.

you simply don't understand what i just said, they removed an advertised feature, which MANY ps3 owners bought their ps3 just so they could install linux on it. which in turn, pissed off a ton of people.

And? I do understand completely. The problem is, Sony has every right to alter their software at any time for any reason.

And do you seriously want me to believe that ANYONE bought a PS3 just so they could install Linux on it? That is the most ignorant comment in this topic. Does Lenix help the system play games? Does it help Netflix stream? They added the software to try and open more options..... and it was exploited. What do you expect them to do?

It's a video game console. In the past few years they have added things to make it more enjoyable/entice newer customers.... but in no way can you convince me that anyone would spend $400 or more on a PS3 so "they could install Linux on it". Hell, you can get a computer 3 times the speed of a PS3 for that price or less.

Im sorry, that just seems an invalid complaint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Ecr8tWetI

Believe. People did.

Why waste the money like that, tho? Seems pointless to me.

People still did. Simply because of the possibilities of being able to use Linux to your own need.